DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

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PITAPan
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by PITAPan »

Rohls wrote:Roger that. I'm on the path to get it going on the points first, then switch over o the Dyna if the trash man hasn't taken them by then...

What about the secondary resistance to the high tension (spark plug) lead? I'm getting ~6.3kOhms @ about 55 degrees ambient temp...? Is this really important to be higher (like 7 or 10 kOhms) per the manual?

Thanks again for the help! Much appreciated.
I could write a long piece on exactly why it's crap but I'll spare you. Get rid of the thing. Not to make you feel bad, but it's a headache nobody needs. Dyna has been around a long time, and has been selling crap a long time and people keep buying. Nothing new about that. how did PT Barnum put it? My original beef with them was that when the module went bad (I had 2) it went intermittent. Real bitch to diagnose. When I asked them for help they told me it was old and out of warranty and piss off kid (still have the letters). Bought the competitors stuff and didn't look back. It failed too, everything will. But it got dead dead and I was back on the road in minutes. If the set screws in that magnet mark up your advance cam where the points ride, you won't be going back to points, even in an emergency. The cam surface is trashed.

The Dyna booster used with stock points can be a stronger option. The points themselves last an extremely long time. That bullshit with the corroding circuit board goes away. Boyer fixed that one back when they identified the problem, Dyna says to drill a hole in your case. (They don't know airheads). The rubbing block on the points still wears requiring a periodic readjustmentand regular lubrication. Big deal, you use a Dwell gauge and it takes about a minute. Switching from booster to points in event of failure takes a minute as well. Unplug this wire and plug in that one. I got one around, unknown condition, yours for the shipping. Personally after looking through their literature and site, I wouldn't want anything to do with Dynatek, they're bullshit artists--- despite the advantages of the booster.

Your meter leads should be about .2 ohms. Check. Then stop worrying about the resistances. Get it making sparks. Then look at the sparks. Blue white and you're good. Limp yellow and you have a problem. The observed condition of the spark is everything. The measurements are only diagnostics you use in event of problems, and then there is a fair amount to do. Right now, your problems lie elsewhere.

The condenser is critical. It's minor function is to suppress arcing across the points, prolonging life. It's major function is to create a resonant circuit with the coils to make the sparks. It's a capacitor and it discharges through the coils---many times during the actual spark event.. The easy way to deal with it is to always have a new one on hand. If in doubt, plug in the new one. They are cheap.

Expect the usual old bike stuff; damaged wires and bad connections. Fix as you go. Get sparks first, then get them happening at the right time. The rest will settle out.



Fatter sparks are always nice but there is point of diminishing returns. The airhead is a low revving low performance motor. A huge ignition system is of limited usefulness. The spark at the plugs is completely a function of the coils. More powerful coils = more powerful sparks...no matter how much hype Dynatek (and others) want to shovel. But more powerful coils draw more current than points can handle, thus you go to electronic switching (essentially a non-contact switch and a relay ) rather than mechanical switching (points). Thing is, your stock coils aren't powerful enough to demand an electronic system. Even if you went to Bosch blue coils, which are plenty on an airhead, the points will handle them fine. Dual plugging and you are running higher draw coils and you want electronics. Some kind of super hot coil on a single plug setup, ditto. BMW went to hotter ignition systems to light up the leaner mixes and more advanced timing specs demanded by the emissions systems. Rip off the emissions stuff and re-tune as much as you can and the same ol' same ol' works dandy. Keeping the system clean and in good shape, keeping the plugs fresh and using the correct ones---it's a solid, reliable system. Bit better cold starting with a hotter spark and more lattitude for the mix getting off. That's it.

Having spent a whole lot of years setting points I'm glad to be rid of them and I liked my electronic systems (including the stock one I have now). But I never had to deal with the garbage you are facing with the Dyna III. Typically new products are quite good. Over time they degrade as the mfg. tries to make them not better, but more profitable. Dyna has pushed their manufacturing off onto you, and done it badly. So they hand you hassles that shouldn't exist because they don't want to spend the money to make it right--or they aren't bright enough, which is likely. Then they cook up bullshit and hype to make the shortcomings look like some kind of benefit. Marketing 101. If it sucks, call it a feature.

There is an error in Duanes wiring diagram. Lets see if he can spot it.
Rohls
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by Rohls »

Thanks! I love the honesty. And yeah, Dyna is not number on in my book either. Hence the switch back to points. I have to mess with it in the next couple days, but as of right now I get NO spark.:/

I suspect the condenser and will order a new one.

Is there a replacement I can find at an auto store? Anyone have that part number/mfg?
1975 R90/6 75K and climbing
1977 R75/7 75K and holding
PITAPan
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by PITAPan »

Rohls wrote:Thanks! I love the honesty. And yeah, Dyna is not number on in my book either. Hence the switch back to points. I have to mess with it in the next couple days, but as of right now I get NO spark.:/

I suspect the condenser and will order a new one.

Is there a replacement I can find at an auto store? Anyone have that part number/mfg?
Yeah, anything. I used to use monster Mallory ones. You have to make a little loop bracket, I mean, they are almost an inch in diameter. Lasted forever. technically there is some matching to be done there. Often blown off. Just run 'em. you need a real parts counter-guy--one that knows cars, not just how to punch make and model into the computer. might do better at a repair shop that works on older cars. They'll have some lying around.

The single wire off the condensor goes to the hot side of the points. Period.

When you set up points, they must be super clean (the contact faces) before running. Use alcohol on a slip of paper.

You want a tach/dwell meter. Feeler gauges get you close, the tach/dwell nails it and is used in the future to check the adjustment in a jiffy. No batteries, cheap, last forever and the tach function is handy.

I'd see what Rick at Mottorad Electric has in coils. Just in case yours are weak or you want to upgrade. Might have Bosch Blues. I've been using the Dyna dual nose coils for a long time. Bit crude on the castings but they seem to work just fine and haven't had one fail or even get weak. Need a special bracket. Need the correct color. A single 12V dual nose Dyna + bracket may be cheaper (????) than a pair of 6V single nose Bosches but the Bosch will be the higher quality coil. Rick is good people. You can beat his price here and there but not his expertise or service. I mean, you call the guy and he picks up the damn phone and helps you with your problem. Worth the money in my book.
Last edited by PITAPan on Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kurt in S.A.
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by Kurt in S.A. »

Personally, I'm a fan of the Dyna III units. I've had two, and the first failure was probably one of the coils or could have been grounding of the backing plate to the case. I've not heard of failures of the module, but I suppose it could happen. But running 2 Dyna units in 30 years is not too bad of a batting average in my book.

Find what works for you and what you understand. Me, I have two other pre-1970 BMWs with points, so I have plenty to fiddle with!

Kurt in S.A.
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Ken in Oklahoma
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by Ken in Oklahoma »

Usually when the subject of Dyna III's comes up I'll do my usual Dyna rant. I put one on my R100/7 looking forward to the freedom. The sucker stranded me twice, once in the hottest part of summer way further than walking distance home. The last time I was stranded it was thankfully in my shop. There, thankfully, I had some cool liquids to calm me while I tried to figure why I wasn't getting sparks. 'Twas the ignition amplifier or whatever they called it. I had the good sense not to bitch to Dyna. I was pretty sure it would not end well for me. It appears I was right.

But in this thread I see other people are bad mouthing the Dyna, so I don't have to.

Ooops! I guess I just did.



Ken
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Kurt in S.A.
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by Kurt in S.A. »

And people have "issues" with condenser, spark plugs, mounting tires, sidestands, electric vests, etc., etc. It's all a crap shoot and you have an experience (either your fault or the equipment's fault) and you take that and move on. No biggee. I just like my Dyna III and will continue to stick with it. :D

Kurt in S.A.
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Ken in Oklahoma
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by Ken in Oklahoma »

Kurt in S.A. wrote:. . . It's all a crap shoot and you have an experience (either your fault or the equipment's fault) and you take that and move on. . . .
Kurt, that's a disgustingly rational adult attitude. C'mon now. I paid good money for that Dyna, sweated sweat, and was otherwise discombobulated. Plus my analyst says that if I hold things in too much it could make me blow a gasket. He didn't say it that way. In fact I don't remember exactly what he did say, but I think the words "neurosis" "existential crisis" "complex" and "penis" were all in there somewhere. Then to top it off he wanted me to join his therapy group and talk about all this stuff to people like me.

I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track bad mouthing Dyna instead.

Ken, feeling better now in Oklahoma
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Kurt in S.A.
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by Kurt in S.A. »

Ken in Oklahoma wrote:I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track bad mouthing Dyna instead.

Ken, feeling better now in Oklahoma
It's all part of the therapy. Oops, our session is over! Please see the receptionist on the way out of the office.

Next!

Kurt in S.A.
Duane Ausherman
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by Duane Ausherman »

I haven't looked at that diagram in many years. I will bet that I sent my cad friend the wrong sketch and he copied it. So, please tell me my error. If it is a functional error, then I don't know what I can do now. Maybe I can find him again.
Ask the Indians what happens when you don't control immigration.
PITAPan
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Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?

Post by PITAPan »

Duane Ausherman wrote:I haven't looked at that diagram in many years. I will bet that I sent my cad friend the wrong sketch and he copied it. So, please tell me my error. If it is a functional error, then I don't know what I can do now. Maybe I can find him again.
Not worth the trouble, although if you have the CAD drawing I have CAD and can change it, or edit the picture directly for that matter. (I'm reworking my entire wiring diagram in photoshop for example)

The condenser uses it's case as it's reference plane---ground. There is only one wire. it's important to know it must be grounded to work---clean mounjting and all that. The diagram establishes a convention for this with the ground symbol at the plugs. But you don't want someone going and looking for the other wire ;)

BTW, something I have always liked about that diagram is that it clearly shows the internal connection in the coil. That's important for Dx and is often omitted.

I would consider adding a resistor at the plug if the diagram is getting fiddled with.
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