Re: DYNA III ignition: why a 'F' in the timing hole at idle?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:34 am
Whelp, got a new condenser and going to try that this morning. Appreciate this forums help as usual. To be continued...
Boxerworks Member Forum
http://forum.boxerworks.com/
The points gap is critical*. But just going for spark and basic debugging, ballpark will do. You use a dwell meter to completely nail it later.Rohls wrote:Whelp, got a new condenser and going to try that this morning. Appreciate this forums help as usual. To be continued...
Guess there are dozens of pictures of the Kettering ignition system on the web that are wrong, too.PITAPan wrote:The condenser uses it's case as it's reference plane---ground. There is only one wire. it's important to know it must be grounded to work---clean mounjting and all that. The diagram establishes a convention for this with the ground symbol at the plugs. But you don't want someone going and looking for the other wire
Who is looking at that diagram, and why?Kurt in S.A. wrote:Guess there are dozens of pictures of the Kettering ignition system on the web that are wrong, too.PITAPan wrote:The condenser uses it's case as it's reference plane---ground. There is only one wire. it's important to know it must be grounded to work---clean mounjting and all that. The diagram establishes a convention for this with the ground symbol at the plugs. But you don't want someone going and looking for the other wireSome of the diagrams simply show connections, some show actual wiring. Certainly there's nothing technically wrong with Duane's diagram...maybe the reader assumes since he's shown actual components, such as plugs, coils, etc., the extension is that all of the connections shown are also physical items, ie wire, as opposed to a path. You said "functionally" wrong...maybe that's your point. But really, it doesn't matter does it?
If someone takes that diagram and begins looking for the other wire, they better step back from the voltmeter and wrenches and call a guru!
Kurt in S.A.
I'd like to expand on critical* as I see it. I see people get so hung up on setting the gap and then never coming back to reconsider that setting. Duane's said it before...he might have it on his site. Gap is only critical on a more than 2-cylinder engine. For our boxer engines, I've come to understand that the only thing you need "some" gap. Too much and you get a weak spark because the coils don't have time to saturate with the flowing current. Too little and the coils can begin to heat up because there's no balance between saturated and unsaturated. But just right...is just right!PITAPan wrote:The points gap is critical*. But just going for spark and basic debugging, ballpark will do. You use a dwell meter to completely nail it later.
I'm not sure...you said "But you don't want someone going and looking for the other wire." The only reason someone would be looking for a wire is if they looked at a diagram. That's what I got of your statement. If they were looking at a condenser and had never seen the diagram, they wouldn't be looking for a wire.PITAPan wrote:Who is looking at that diagram, and why?
if you don't know why someone is looking at the diagram, how do you know who they are (in terms of what they know), what they are looking for and what they are likely to get out of what they see? You can make a diagram many different ways. What you chose to do depends on what you perceive as your audience and their needs.Kurt in S.A. wrote:I'm not sure...you said "But you don't want someone going and looking for the other wire." The only reason someone would be looking for a wire is if they looked at a diagram. That's what I got of your statement. If they were looking at a condenser and had never seen the diagram, they wouldn't be looking for a wire.PITAPan wrote:Who is looking at that diagram, and why?
As to why...you got me there.
Kurt in S.A.
So how do you go about making diagrams on websites for the interweb traffic? The audience is all over the map and so are their needs. If you're writing a physics text book or preparing notes for EE 101, you have a much better perception of the audience and needs. The internet is both a curse and a blessing, depending on where you stand.PITAPan wrote:if you don't know why someone is looking at the diagram, how do you know who they are (in terms of what they know), what they are looking for and what they are likely to get out of what they see? You can make a diagram many different ways. What you chose to do depends on what you perceive as your audience and their needs.
You have gotten into massive fussing and fooling around and going back and forth looking for where it is right. The idea is NOT to do all this.Kurt in S.A. wrote:I'd like to expand on critical* as I see it. I see people get so hung up on setting the gap and then never coming back to reconsider that setting. Duane's said it before...he might have it on his site. Gap is only critical on a more than 2-cylinder engine. For our boxer engines, I've come to understand that the only thing you need "some" gap. Too much and you get a weak spark because the coils don't have time to saturate with the flowing current. Too little and the coils can begin to heat up because there's no balance between saturated and unsaturated. But just right...is just right!PITAPan wrote:The points gap is critical*. But just going for spark and basic debugging, ballpark will do. You use a dwell meter to completely nail it later.
I suggest the following:
- set gap to the nominal value
- set the points backing plate in the middle of it's rotation
- check timing
- if off, see if rotating the backing plate will fix it
- if not, reset the backing plate to the middle and change the gap
- a small gap change makes a huge change in timing
- go back to rotating the plate
Don't think you have to hog out the holes in the backing plate...not the right thing to do. You have two degrees of freedom and they need to be worked together to get there.
Kurt in S.A.
The interwebs might contain almost everybody but the diagram itself serves as a filter. Some will glance at it and move on quickly while others will print it out and head out to the shop. You design the thing with your user in mind. Do they need to know what's where? What connects to what? What's happening inside the Black Box? What things are called?Kurt in S.A. wrote:So how do you go about making diagrams on websites for the interweb traffic? The audience is all over the map and so are their needs. If you're writing a physics text book or preparing notes for EE 101, you have a much better perception of the audience and needs. The internet is both a curse and a blessing, depending on where you stand.PITAPan wrote:if you don't know why someone is looking at the diagram, how do you know who they are (in terms of what they know), what they are looking for and what they are likely to get out of what they see? You can make a diagram many different ways. What you chose to do depends on what you perceive as your audience and their needs.
Kurt in S.A.