ATGATT

[vanzen]

Should I also mention I wear an open face helmet? And I have a flip front that when I wear it the front is flipped up most of the time. I suppose open face helmets are not ATGATT either.

I really like having my jaw where it is.

Another + vote 4 full-face ...
From one who experienced his jaw, face, and helmet being ground into the pavement.
Need I say that the experience changed my way of thinking ?

[vanzen]

Interesting debate. But not really ...
One undeniable fact remains:
The occasion for an incident where no amount of ATGATT,
riding skill, defensive driving, motivational strategy, or prescience
will be able to deliver your ass unscathed
is always an imminent reality.
If you will deny or cannot accept this premise,
it would be best for you to take up golf, instead.

One can summon any number of stories about the maiming, dismemberment or deaths
of riders without helmets or riders wearing full-faced helmets.
Riders in shorts and flip-flops, and riders with ATG.

These stories serve to prove NOTHING.
We cannot assume that long term repetitive involvement in an activity
that does not result in catastrophe
will guarantee that catastrophic results canot occur.
This statement will be true, ATGATT or not.
We cannot achieve a state of invincibility.
Two issues remain:
1.) Risk management, and
2.) Cost management

In a perfect world, the ABATE slogan, "Let those who ride decide" might rule the day.
I agree with what these words say
even as I would never adopt the modes of behavior that prompted the saying of them.
Be that as it may, we do not live in a perfect world.
We live in a world where the negligence, ignorance, or bravado of other participants,
by virtue of insurance company interests, their lobbyists, litigation, and legislative recourse,
will impact the price that we all must pay in order to enjoy that activity.

Do as you will, ride blind, drunk, and naked if you'd like –
but do understand the potential of consequences those decisions will bring to the table,
not only in terms of your health and future
and those who will regret seeing you trussed up in hospital,
looking like so many pounds of ground meat,
or those who will be obliged to identify your remains in the morgue ...

but also those consequences that serve to burden the entire motorcycling community.

It's not just about you anymore ...

[enigmaT120]

Another + vote 4 full-face ...
From one who experienced his jaw, face, and helmet being ground into the pavement.
Need I say that the experience changed my way of thinking ?

You know, for once I'm not going to ask for pictures. I'm glad you made it.

[Jeff in W.C.]

Two issues remain:
1.) Risk management, and
2.) Cost management

That's basically my thought. I wear ATG because I want the best chance of walking away. I also think wearing the gear is cheap insurance, but I realize that there's no guarantee.

Unfortunately, our system (insurance, medical, etc.) does not adequately shift the responsibility on to those who choose to take more risks than others. That applies to things other than motorcycle riding as well. For that reason I'm more inclinded to require safety gear.

[vanzen]

It's not just about you anymore ...

The popular cultural myth and lie of "freedom" that blinds the masses
into seeing themselves as some stoic John Wayne figure
riding off alone on his horse into the Monument Valley sunset ...

will finally and ultimately be the chains that bind us all.

[Sunbeem]

In England I'm rarely tempted to ditch my gear, I'm always in leathers, or an armoured suit.
In a hot climate, on a lightweight bike off-road it would be different. Where the line is between the two ... I'm not sure.

Vanzen's thoughts resonate with mine, and I enjoyed reading them.

Much more important (?) is the need to avoid being an AGNI -

We've all seen them, they are everywhere, making the world a tricky business.
All the Gear - No Idea.

Sunbeem. Scarred and scared, in Bentham.

[Chuey]

The popular cultural myth and lie of "freedom" that blinds the masses
into seeing themselves as some stoic John Wayne figure
riding off alone on his horse into the Monument Valley sunset ...

...keeping in mind that even that image was on a sound stage. Like the moon landing, there are no real Monument Valley sunsets. They are all images on a screen.

Chuey

[Steve in Golden]

...keeping in mind that even that image was on a sound stage. Like the moon landing, there are no real Monument Valley sunsets. They are all images on a screen.

Here's another image on the screen...


If one were lucky enough to be at Monument Valley during a nice sunset, I'm sure it would seem pretty real. I'd love to see that, Monument Valley is an awesome place.

[enigmaT120]

Unfortunately, our system (insurance, medical, etc.) does not adequately shift the responsibility on to those who choose to take more risks than others. That applies to things other than motorcycle riding as well. For that reason I'm more inclined to require safety gear.

I would be more inclined to outlaw fast food first.

[Ross]

Is FUTURE the reincarnation of the once infamous Funholiday?

FH was only once infamous? I agree with Future, the government in Oz tries to be into everyones business. Thank goodness the country is so big and the population so small. I've had my share of 2 wheel misfortune and choose to wear what I think is appropriate riding gear. On the other hand I tend to go beyond the speed limit when on 2 wheels and this might negate the safe clothing that I wear. Everyone that has responded to this thread has his/her own stories to tell about safety, but we must admit that we participate in risk taking behavior. As far as insurance premiums go, I've never seen them go down, only up. Is that because we are more unsafe now than we were in the past? On the whole, I don't think so.

This was in yesterdays local paper. Again we are being told what to do. Back in the 70s/80s when the MRA (Motorcycle Riders Assoc) was started their motto was "Let those who ride decide". Telling the gruberment to let us riders decide what is good and right for us.



I have no problems with people wearing ATGATT. I would love nothing better than to wear full leathers. I can not afford them. Never have been able to. When I have worn a leather jacket in summer I sweat that much that my sweat affects the leather and it falls to bits. I kid you not.