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Major Softie wrote:Yeah, I don't know if this IS what is causing the filters to collapse, but it COULD cause filters to collapse, and it would be very bad, but one should see the oil pressure light come on under those circumstances.

I think the pressure required to crush the filter would be more than enough to keep the oil light off. What does the sender unit operate at, about 7 or 11 psi ?
The crushed filters would also restrict oil flow considerably, maintaining oil pressure at the sender.

A longer tube in the oil filter cavity will stop the filter from crushing as much as seen in the pictures but it isn't fixing the cause of the problem.
If this problem is not common on bikes with a short tube then it most likely isn't the problem.

Barndeadr80 says the oil filter bypass setup is intact. I would like to know if the ball is held 'spring loaded' against the retaining screw/plug/thingy?
If all is not well in the filter bypass, (broken spring) it may be that the ball is able to block the bypass exit hole ....... then at times, there would be some serious filter crushing pressure in the filter cavity.
Another consideration is whether the collapse is gradual or instant.

barndeadr80 wrote:I get lost in this thing myself. Motobins lists a spring that fits all twins. I smack myself in the head and look at other apps and find the same plunger and hollow bolt and those list the spring. All the same # spring. A $1 spring. That would be just about right. All this for a $1 spring. The one in the pressure relief valve on the front of the engine.
Anyway, the engine has just under 50k miles on it. Since I am going in there anyway, should I expect to be replacing any chain tensioner parts? Be a good time to get them when I order the $1 spring.
The "other" spring and detent ball in the filter housing seem to be fine, and the retainer is staked in. Peened in.

I'm reluctant to advise anyone to spend their money...
If i was going into the timing chest I would consider a timing chain and tensioners, oil seal in the timing cover, diode board mounts.
If it were my bike, I would whip the timing cover off to eliminate possible causes......

ME 109 wrote:
I think the pressure required to crush the filter would be more than enough to keep the oil light off. What does the sender unit operate at, about 7 or 11 psi ?
The crushed filters would also restrict oil flow considerably, maintaining oil pressure at the sender.

A longer tube in the oil filter cavity will stop the filter from crushing as much as seen in the pictures but it isn't fixing the cause of the problem.
If this problem is not common on bikes with a short tube then it most likely isn't the problem.

Barndeadr80 says the oil filter bypass setup is intact. I would like to know if the ball is held 'spring loaded' against the retaining screw/plug/thingy?
If all is not well in the filter bypass, (broken spring) it may be that the ball is able to block the bypass exit hole ....... then at times, there would be some serious filter crushing pressure in the filter cavity.
Another consideration is whether the collapse is gradual or instant.

I was thumbin through a /5 factory manual last night and found this.

Oil pres warning light........... .5 bar = 7.5lbs
Oil filter bypass ................. 1.5 bar = 22lbs

Garnet wrote: I was thumbin through a /5 factory manual last night and found this.

Oil pres warning light........... .5 bar = 7.5lbs
Oil filter bypass ................. 1.5 bar = 22lbs

Do they say anything about the main relief spring in the front main bearing web?

gspd wrote:

Garnet wrote: I was thumbin through a /5 factory manual last night and found this.

Oil pres warning light........... .5 bar = 7.5lbs
Oil filter bypass ................. 1.5 bar = 22lbs

Do they say anything about the main relief spring in the front main bearing web?

Yes I think it was 5 bar = 75 lbs....... I think.

ME 109 wrote:There is an oil pressure relief valve attached to the front main bearing carrier, which also uses a ball and spring setup.
If the oil pressure relief valve is faulty due to the spring breaking, or the ball coming out, or the whole valve falling out of the bearing carrier, then a situation could exist where little pressure is able to build up on the down stream side of the oil filter.
That situation I believe is what is causing the filters to collapse, and could happen with normal oil pressure.

I've been/sent people on wild goose chases before!

Just two points.

1. Failure of the front carrier relief valve should only cause excessive pressure at the filter if the other valve (the one in the oil filter housing) is stuck shut since the whole purpose of this second valve (the one in the oil filter housing) is to prevent an excessive build up of pressure across the filter.
2. Failure of the front carrier relief valve won't necessarily cause the light to come on at running revs since there is clearly a build up of pressure across the filter and the switching pressure of the switch is very low. The pressure sender is upstream of the filter so will 'see' the pressure on the upstream side of the filter

Rob

As I avoid the ideologies and theologies of differential oil pressures to protect my mind from the madness that would, no doubt, clog it up for sure with no hope of pressure relief...
I know the detent ball thingy in the filter housing is in place, spring loaded and ready to do the work it was designed to do. I don't know about the oil passage behind it so I refuse to think about it.
I have an adapter lurking near to hook up a gauge. The gauge is on a UPS truck "out for delivery".
Today is the day the fun begins. I will check the oil pressure cold and hot before fiddling around in the front of the engine. I will have to go in there for a look, though. Something changed along the way. At least that is something that can be checked out. The pressure relief valve with the $1 spring.
The light has never come on except at starting, and has behaved as it should then and after an oil change when there is briefly no pressure in there.
The filter that will be coming out will only have a few hundred miles on it. That is as close as I can get to knowing whether the filters collapse instantly or over time.
When I do get in there I hope to find an obvious problem. If not, there are few options that I can think of.
I could just shoot the thing but that might be a bit extreme.

barndeadr80 wrote: I could just shoot the thing but that might be a bit extreme.

Now Now........ there are lots of guys on the forum here who would be only too happy to come and take it away for you.

"I could just shoot the thing but that might be a bit extreme."

Or, you could just ignore the whole issue and go riding.

Take a look at the used market for lower ends. They are cheap, very cheap. That is because they just don't fail often. The BMW world is littered with them. Very few ever need one, so they just lay around and take up space. I have a low mileage one in my shop that has been there for over 30 years now. I only remember it when I have to move it for some reason.

OK. Plumbing 101 is done. 0-200 Grade A gauge is in place and expecting the worst I started it up. Same everything. 100 miles or so on the oil. It read about 95psi just above idle, before it warmed up it would go to 150psi at 3500rpm. Rode it a mile or so and got it way too hot to put a hand on a valve cover. It dropped to 40psi at idle and would go to 95psi at 5500rpm.
Is this bad? It doesn't seem terrible at all considering what I have read.
I think it is just torturing me. Making me stressed out as to whether it will eat a filter or not. Except for eating a filter, I am thinking Mr A has the right idea. Ride the thing.
I still want to stick a 10mm speed wrench in the oil filter cannister and drop the hammer but I will resist the urge.