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Sidecars...hmmm

I am an experienced sidecarist; It WAS the ONLY way to ride a 'bike' 12 months a year in Quebec.
Then a law was instated a few years ago: "All vehicles on Quebec roads must have snow tires on all their wheels from Dec 15 to March 15". That put an end to that.*

A snow tire, legally, is defined as a tire with a snowflake pictogram on the sidewall.
This pictogram assures that certain compounds were used so the tread will remain flexible in cold weather.
Some approved snow tires look just like summer tires; others that look like real snow tires are illegal.
It appears that an aggressive tread is not the issue, soft rubber is.
Nobody manufactures a motorcycle tire with a snowflake pictogram.
One solution is to use an automotive wheel/tire set up, as many serious hackers do.
That solves that dilemna. But it sucks.

*It didn't affect me personally because I got addicted to heat as I matured.
I also discovered that salt will destroy any bike in short order.

circa 1980

*It didn't affect me personally because I got addicted to heat as I matured.
I also discovered that salt will destroy any bike in short order.

So did I.
Yes it will.

You guys should move down here.

All the heat you can stand.

The cold season isn't very bad or very long.

And on the odd occasion that it gets icy, we use sand rather than salt.

I live in Canada and I ride all year.....in the rain.

so do they enforce these snow tire laws?
would it be a factor if some dipstick plowed into you during the winter?
is there a date on the calendar for "winter" in CN?
would the insurance co's use the snow tire law againt you in a claim situation?
has a motorcycle ever been ticketed for tire infractions in CN?

thats a new one on me, the only time Ive heard about rules related to winter was when I worked for Harley davidson. the factory's employee take home bikes in Milwaukee were required to be fitted with a sidecar during the winter months...
m

Matt wrote:so do they enforce these snow tire laws?
would it be a factor if some dipstick plowed into you during the winter?
is there a date on the calendar for "winter" in CN?
would the insurance co's use the snow tire law againt you in a claim situation?
has a motorcycle ever been ticketed for tire infractions in CN?

thats a new one on me, the only time Ive heard about rules related to winter was when I worked for Harley davidson. the factory's employee take home bikes in Milwaukee were required to be fitted with a sidecar during the winter months...
m

1 - Yes. but as with all the other laws they enforce, they are not that proficient at it. The fine is around $300.
They check for snow tires whenever they pull someone over for any infraction, and at roadside spot checks.
From what I've seen, compliance seems to be almost 100%.
I personally always ran 4 snow tires on my cars in winter even before it was a law.
My hack had semi-knobby (trials universal?) tires year round.
2 - Definitely. If an insurance company can find any legal reason to deny a claim, they will.
3 - Dec 15 to March 15, I was talking about Quebec, not Ontario.
4 - Same answer as #2
5 - They had radio ads in early March last year warning that bikes would be ticketed regardless of the road conditions if they were caught on the road before Mar 15, I don't personally know anybody who was fined, but it's usually too cold to ride then anyway.

well...?
I'd cnsider protest. I bet there are more than a couple of motorcyclists up there who think like you do.
I'd first go look for an approved list of tire manufacturers provided by the canadian government. Once you prove they dont have any "approved" list THEn you can knock the law down. thats how helmet laws in some states get fought....like in GA. its helmet laws have specific wording & when they challenged the law state government put the word out to stop writing tickets for helmets so they wouldn't have to fight it in court.
if NOBODY makes a snow tire for your bike I'd have a hard time thinking the law makers could make you put snow tires on your machine.....if NOBODY makes or sells an approved snow tire they are basically banning motorcycles fromt he roads and if thats the case how cant hey expect you to pay to tag and insure your machine if your not allowed to ride for a big chunk of the year?
the whole thing kind of disgusts me. sorry for your plight.
matt

Matt wrote:well...?
I'd first go look for an approved list of tire manufacturers provided by the Canadian government. Once you prove they dont have any "approved" list THEn you can knock the law down. that's how helmet laws in some states get fought....like in GA.

A couple problems there. First, you can't take any assumptions about legal proceedings in the U.S. and think they apply to other countries courts. You can't even apply all procedural issues from State to State. Second, There's only one reason the Georgia law could be attacked on the "list" issue: the law required the Board of Public Safety to publish such a list, and they failed to do so, thus the State was out of compliance with its own law. If they hadn't put that list requirement into the law, then that issue would never have come up. Third, even in the U.S., they don't have to have an approved "list" of snowtires, nor do they need one. There are other ways they can meet the burden of showing it is not arbitrary. If they have an approved standard, and any acceptable process for determining if the products actually meet the standard, that can fulfill the requirement, and snowtires fit into that mold (excuse the weak-ass pun). The "snowflake" requirement is already a standard to meet snow tire requirements in many U.S. states, but, as far as I know, no one here requires them during certain months, only when roads are restricted because of snow conditions. Others only require the M+S insignia, but they all have some standard, and nobody has a list. Both the Snowflake, and the M+S, are Federal standards. If Georgia had stuck with the Federal DOT standard, like almost everyone else did, their law would have held up fine.

Matt wrote:if NOBODY makes a snow tire for your bike I'd have a hard time thinking the law makers could make you put snow tires on your machine.....if NOBODY makes or sells an approved snow tire they are basically banning motorcycles from the roads and if that's the case how cant hey expect you to pay to tag and insure your machine if your not allowed to ride for a big chunk of the year?

This is another one of those "Well, maybe in the U.S." things, but we have certain rights that few or no other countries have. In addition, even in the U.S. we have the problem that operating a motor vehicle has long been established in the U.S. to be a privilege, not a right. Operating a vehicle has become such a necessity in most of the U.S. that I think that is one of those issues that we may want to try to change, but, until we do, they can do virtually anything they want to us regarding vehicle operation, because we have no right to operate vehicle on the road.

I can imagine some being tempted to cut the snowflake emblem off a few old tires and contact it onto their current set .

My bike has snowflakes. All year round riding!
Come to Australia, ride where ya want-when ya want. Sort of.