She no go!!

[Doug]

Well it's been a very quiet week in my home garage!

Ive had a succession of problems with things electrical, ... which I thought were due to not getting out enough and restoring the battery charge lost in starting my old 1984 R 65.
Over the last couple of weeks, Ive had the battery on charge about twice a week, I reckon.
Symptoms being that there seemed to be not enough kick to turn the motor over fast and long enough to fire.
After a few goes, it seemed that the starter gear was not engaging and you got a screeaming ratatatatata ... With a bit more charge in the battery this seemed to be overcome.

Then yesterday, despite the battery being charged, ( a new one about 3 months ago) ther starter gear would not engage... just ratatatatatata... so back on the charger again, and this morning... all I gounld get on pressing the starter was a solid but unproductive clunk as the solenoid kicked in, but nothing form the starter motor!!!

What could this mean???
Well I got out mr Clymer and exhausted the easy and obvious.
I dont think the motor is seized... plenty of oil in the sump.... however, when i can get the spark plugs out, I'll finally eliminate this possibility.
So Ive now started on the melancholy task of eviscerating the poor old thing!... That is desribed in mr Clymer than in parctice!! I've now got down to the fixing bolts that secure the starter (not a bosch... the french one) The bolts are all but inaccessible, at least with the odd assortment of tools that Ibhave at my disposal. And I really dont know what I'll do when I get the thing out... maybe take it to some specialist dude that might be able to do a diagnosis... It's all pretty grotty down in there, looks like it's not seen the light of day for a very long time ...

So.. anyone got any thoughts??

And you wouldn't believe the glorious riding weather we are having.... start of daylight saving tonight as welll... and I have bike innards scattered all over the workshop floor

Help anyone??

Doug

And y

Doug

[gspd]

1 - See if the engine rotates via the rear wheel (5th gear)

2 - See if the starter works when boosting it with a your car
Don't assume the battery is good because it's only 3 months old.

3 - To remove the starter the only 100% effective tool is a Snap-On 1/4 drive ratchet/socket combo. ($100.)

It 's the only tool I've encountered small enough to fit properly AND the handle only requires a few degrees of swing to engage the next tooth. If in dire straights, grind away sections of a 13mm box wrench so it fits.
You'll have to remove the front cover to easily access the front mounting bolt(s).

[richard t]

you might recheck for loose or bad cables. also does it draw a lot of amps when you hit the starter? (head light go dim?) after you get the starter out check the brushes and bushing in the starter

[Ken in Oklahoma]

Doug, I'm in agreement with the folks above. You've gone into starter removal a tad early.

The rat-tat-tat sound you're hearing is a classic symptom of not enough power (current times voltage) at the starter. When you first hit the starter switch there's enough voltage at the starter to engage the starter solenoid (which "switches" the high current to the starter motor). But if the battery is insufficient or the battery connections aren't good enough the minute the starter motor tries to turn the engine flywheel the voltage drops and the solenoid disengages. Then with the solenoid disengaged the voltage rises enough to engage the solenoid again. Rat-tat-tat!

I've had new batteries fail almost immediately. The advice to jump start from a car battery is a good one. A car battery won't hurt your starter or electrical system. It has no more voltage than your bike's battery. The current supplied will be only what the starter motor needs to turn the engine. Alternatively you can take your motorcycle battery to an auto parts store or battery shoppe and have it load tested.

Battery cables that don't have good enough connections to pass the required current will make the Rat-tat-tat starter sound just like a bad battery will. Clean the cable connections (all four of them) and inspect the cables for corrosion at their ends, sometimes under the rubber jacket.

When you've determined that the problem definitely isn't the battery or cable connections, then you can pull the starter.

About tools:
You've made the decision to maintain your airhead. And you've come here for advice. Good decisions and we're glad to have you here. But where I'm headed with this is that you're going to need to buy the tools you need to do the work. You want good tools, but you don't necessarily have to have the best. You don't have to buy the very best, MAC, Snap-On, etc. And you shouldn't try to make do with the worst, which would be tools from India, China, and other such places. My minimum quality level for tools are Craftsman tools from sears.

The bonus is that you'll get a slight surge of joy when you pick up that higher quality tool for future jobs.



Ken

[moosehead]

If, after checking all the simple things first (connections, as suggested, are sometimes the biggest culprit here) and then you get down to removing the starter motor itself...

GSPD's suggestion to grind down the box end of a "spare" 13mm wrench will work in a pinch... has to be ground down enough to fit in the itty bitty cavity to remove the nut...when I did mine I replaced the orientation of the nut/bolt combination putting the nut on the other end so easier access to remove later in time...can't remember if I put longer bolt in or not...this suggestion I got from "somewhere" on the web...think over in Airheads "tips and techniques"?? section or from maybe this "old" forum...it worked.

Its a plodding affair with the 13mm box wrench but hey, a beer and some good music in the background, it will be done!

[Jean]

Doug, If that "new" battery sat around for 3 months without being used (charged) it probably won't take a deep charge now.
It will seem to be charged, but it will not have the amperage needed to run the starter. It has what's called a surface charge. If it is a lead/acid battry, do you have the means to check the cells? (A hygrometer...that glass tube thing...?)

DO try the car battery test first before pulling the starter...BE careful with the clips tho, it will be easy to short the + lead to the frame with the big auto-clips!! Be sure you have a battery in the circuit (ALL leads connected to each terminal) to prevent damage to your diode/alternator in the event the engine DOES start!

Good tools can be gotten at lea markets.

[Doug]

Thanks for all your thoughts!!!
Looks like I might have opted for surgery a bit prematurely!...I'll put her back togather and concentrate on a few more diagnostics before I get out the spanners again.
I'll keep you posted!!
Thanks again for your valuable ideas..
Doug

[Doug]

Well I took the good advice, put all the innards back again cleaning bits, cable contacts etc as I went and then did a jump start from the car and it fired up instantly!... So I guess it was the new battery after all.
I have found that it needed charging every few days to be able to start the bike. ... and now it is showing full charge on my battery charger, but can only produce a ratatatata...
I'll take it back to Bockmans tomorrow!!
Meanwhile, all not wasted... I've learded a bit more about the innards!
Thanks blokes again for your advice
Doug

[Zombie Master]

[quote="gspd"]1 - See if the engine rotates via the rear wheel (5th gear)

3 - To remove the starter the only 100% effective tool is a Snap-On 1/4 drive ratchet/socket combo. ($100.

My very favorite tool in my box!

[rinkydink]

Now get that battery tender and between rides keep her charged up. Good long rides work better though...