Inspired or blasphemy? New and improved

[Deleted User 287]

I am not going to register on a website just to see a picture or post.

I get the same page. Try this Rob: http://www.falconmotorcycles.com/gallery/5- The Black .html#0 Note: the first picture you see shows it missing some parts to show what's underneath, scroll trough the gallery.

Yeah, I thought it looked familiar. This came to me in the email a few days ago:
http://www.bikeexif.com/vincent-black-shadow-2

[bbelk]

Somehow that thing looks like it might damage the family jewels.

[dougie]

That bike looks like it wants a wooden board speedway.

[Chuey]

I am not going to register on a website just to see a picture or post.

I get the same page. Try this Rob: http://www.falconmotorcycles.com/gallery/5- The Black .html#0 Note: the first picture you see shows it missing some parts to show what's underneath, scroll trough the gallery.

Yeah, I thought it looked familiar. This came to me in the email a few days ago:
http://www.bikeexif.com/vincent-black-shadow-2

Since they made their own hubs, they could have made the spoke holes better. The way they are, the spoke's bend is unsupported and that will lead to shorter life compared to one that has a thicker flange. Another way to deal with that would have been to use spokes with a tighter elbow. There are plenty of examples like this and some that are much worse. Triumph and HD have some atrocities.

Before you think I'm blowing smoke, I'll tell you that I asked one of the Buchannans about this. He was very kind to field a "theory" question from someone he didn't know. I explained that I come at this from bicycle wheel knowledge but had seen some very bad looking practices on some motorcycle wheels. I asked him if those bad practices were not bad practices in motorcycles. He told me how Triumph gets away with what they do and said I should check out some HD wheels which I did. Some looked great. Some models have roaring bad design.

It seems to me that if they can get away with bad design, then things are stouter than they need to be. My mind wanders to this question: What could be gotten away with if they used excellent design and materials to make spoked motorcycle wheels? By the way, BMW wheels are designed very well. At least the ones I'm aware of. They seem hell for stout. It would be very interesting to be able to experiment with lighter set-ups and see where the practical limits are.

Chuey

PS I think that bike has some really nice looking proportions. It would be very interesting to see what it looks like with a rider on it. There is a Japanese designer who makes bikes that have a similar shape and he boasts that he actually rides them. They look all out of whack with a rider on them. When is it art?

[Zombie Master]

Since they made their own hubs, they could have made the spoke holes better. The way they are, the spoke's bend is unsupported and that will lead to shorter life compared to one that has a thicker flange. Another way to deal with that would have been to use spokes with a tighter elbow. There are plenty of examples like this and some that are much worse. Triumph and HD have some atrocities.

Aren't we always better off with a straight pull spoke?

[Chuey]

Aren't we always better off with a straight pull spoke?

I don't know for sure. From what we do know, the spoke likes to be supported at the elbow as it leaves the hub. Leaving any of the elbow part hanging out in the air is exposing a weak part to forces that try to break it. At some point, it seems to me that the bracing angle of the spoke is an important factor. Witness the "cross" spoked GS wheels. If you were to take a 4" hub width and use either straight pull or elbowed spokes, the elbowed ones, at least half of them, would have a greater bracing angle. What I'm trying to say is that I think there are lots of variables that can change things.

Chuey

[melville]

Aren't we always better off with a straight pull spoke?

I don't know for sure. From what we do know, the spoke likes to be supported at the elbow as it leaves the hub. Leaving any of the elbow part hanging out in the air is exposing a weak part to forces that try to break it. At some point, it seems to me that the bracing angle of the spoke is an important factor. Witness the "cross" spoked GS wheels. If you were to take a 4" hub width and use either straight pull or elbowed spokes, the elbowed ones, at least half of them, would have a greater bracing angle. What I'm trying to say is that I think there are lots of variables that can change things.

Chuey

Indeed, all they had to do was call Phil Wood. Best. Flanges. Ever.

I never liked any of the straight pull hubs for bicycles, back when they were built to be laced to conventional rims. I saw bracing angle issues (particularly on the rear), they weren't particularly light, and the bearing and freewheel mechanisms seemed substandard. The newer ones that are designed as part of a low spoke count wheel appear better, but I have no direct experience with them yet. As our Airhead hubs and rims are similarly designed as a system, I rather like them.

[Major Softie]

What could be gotten away with if they used excellent design and materials to make spoked motorcycle wheels? By the way, BMW wheels are designed very well. At least the ones I'm aware of. They seem hell for stout. It would be very interesting to be able to experiment with lighter set-ups and see where the practical limits are.
Chuey

Older BMW wheels were still designed to be strong enough to be totally reliable in sidecar use. Obviously, that puts stresses on the hubs that a normal motorcycle will never put on them. So, they could clearly be designed significantly lighter and still be strong enough to be reliable in normal motorcycle use.

It seems to me that the cast wheels were developed about the same time BMW stopped really concerning itself with sidecar use in its designs. So, the only spoke wheels that were designed without that concern are the GS and later spoke wheels. Wider tires and rims, and wider hubs create issues designing around dual front discs (or more precisely, dual front calipers), so that contributes another factor.


On the straight pull spoke issue, hub width vs spoke pattern width is the issue. Any straight pull hub has to be wider than a flange hub for the same spoke pattern width.

[Chuey]

OK then, Melville and I agree on Phil Wood hubs. My way of saying it is "If I were reincarnated as a spoke, I'd like to live in a Phil Wood hub."

Also, Major Softie brought up some good points.

Therefore, the new hub/spoke/rim configuration committee will consist of Melville, Major Softie and Chuey. We can handle it.

Chuey