Morris Rims

[Major Softie]

It seems then, that for this discussion, there is the supposition that tires do not vary much in weight. Are tubeless tires generally lighter or heavier than non tubeless in a given size? That is, not including the tube.

Chuey

No. But, tubeless tires are consistently much lighter than tube tires PLUS their tubes, when comparing the same size.

[vanzen]

Weight variations exist when comparing tubeless tires of a given size.
I suspect (but cannot verify)
that a similar range of variation would exist
when comparing a TT vs a tubeless tire of a given size.

I do not know of any design or construction difference
(TT vs tubeless)
that can guarantee one type to be either heavier or lighter than the other

The 1st BMW that I rode extensively was a 1971 R75.
This would have been in the mid 70s,
and of course the mc wore spokes and tubes.
Even then, TT tires were not a popular choice.
Most often, tubeless tires were used - with tubes,
for the advantage of contemporary design characteristics
(such as compounds, carcass construction, and tread design).

[melville]

Weight variations exist when comparing tubeless tires of a given size.
I suspect (but cannot verify)
that a similar range of variation would exist
when comparing a TT vs a tubeless tire of a given size.

I do not know of any design or construction difference
(TT vs tubeless)
that can guarantee one type to be either heavier or lighter than the other

The 1st BMW that I rode extensively was a 1971 R75.
This would have been in the mid 70s,
and of course the mc wore spokes and tubes.
Even then, TT tires were not a popular choice.
Most often, tubeless tires were used - with tubes,
for the advantage of contemporary design characteristics
(such as compounds, carcass construction, and tread design).

Tubeless tires have an extra layer of butyl on the inside to retain the air. Without it, a sidewall is actually porous.

Chuey and I are familiar with latex bicycle tubes, thinner walled than even a rubber (STD barrier sort) and I wonder why such a thing is not available for motos.

[vanzen]

Tubeless tires have an extra layer of butyl on the inside to retain the air. Without it, a sidewall is actually porous.

The fact of which does not guarantee
any conclusions regarding comparative weight.

Chuey and I are familiar with latex bicycle tubes, thinner walled than even a rubber (STD barrier sort) and I wonder why such a thing is not available for motos.

Which brings us right back to unrealistic expectations of comparison
given the very different magnitude of forces acting upon
and desired responses of the particular wheel / tire in question.

Is it possible to fit lightweight latex tubes
onto the wheels of a 50hp, 450lb motorcycle
and have them perform successfully ?
The experiment would be of little importance to me,
but by all means, give it a go.

Of course, any number of methods exist
to do away entirely with tubes on conventional spoked rims.
None are approved for road use ...
However, that fact may speak more directly
to the bureaucratic complexity
of gaining that legal approval
as opposed to the actual viability of the method / product.

[Chuey]

For the record, I am not a fan of latex bicycle tubes for any bicycle tire other than a tubular (sew-up) because of the shape of the inside of the tire chamber where it affects the valve.

Chuey

[khittner1]

This string could be close to its remarkably-delayed end.

[Ken in Oklahoma]

This string could be close to its remarkably-delayed end.

Very clever khittner1! You are obviously enjoying this string so much that you are using reverse psychology to extend it. I for one am going to help you get what you want so much. I'm going to go away for a while to think of some permutation that hasn't been talked about yet, or is so outrageous that a few readers will feel an acute need to set me straight.

Wait! In fact one outrageous post came to mind, but sadly it's alrady been done. But just for those who haven't read that historical thread, the idea is to make a spoked wheel tubeless by sealing the spoke nipples with silicone. That and a tubless valve stem and you've got the solution for a very low unsprung weight wheel. What could go wrong?


Ken

[vanzen]

Outrageous indeed !
Silicone James, however, has been redeemed.
Permuations of his "outrageous" plan
have been successfully implemented for at least a decade.
Witness Gregor Halenda's Team Incomplete Boxer as proof of the concept .
http://www.teamincomplete.com/Boxer/the ... age15.html

[khittner1]

You totally busted me, Ken. So here's what I want to know: Do we have any detailed comparisons of compressed air vs. nitrogen in tubed or tubeless tires run on Morris rims? Any "creative adapters/technological advancers and developers" with data on using helium (or for the real cutting-edge daredevils, hydrogen) to reduce an airhead's unsprung weight and improve its handling? Do they refer to themselves as "inert-heads" or "Hindenberg-heads"? Has the MOA created a new rally award for "the oldest rider on the oldest bike who's come from the greatest distance on a cobbled-together set of wheels inflated with flammable gas"? I'd wait around for an answer, but I'm spending this afternoon "walking about looking for berries".

[barryh]

So here's what I want to know: Do we have any detailed comparisons of compressed air vs. nitrogen in tubed or tubeless tires run on Morris rims? Any "creative adapters/technological advancers and developers" with data on using helium (or for the real cutting-edge daredevils, hydrogen) to reduce an airhead's unsprung weight and improve its handling?

I like a challenge.

Volume of the tube approx. 0.5 Cu ft

Air weighs 0.085 lbs/Cu ft at atmospheric pressure

That's 0.04275 lbs

or approx 0.1 lb at 36psi

Hydrogen being 14 times lighter than air would weigh approx. 0.12 oz

You'd save approx. 1.5 oz or 40 grams per wheel using Hydrogen followed shortly after by another few grams when the hydrogen had leaked out through the tube.