Pick which one you would you would ride first and why

[Major Softie]

Both bikes look as if they are meant to be ridden with one's chin on the steering damper knob ...

Until you look at the height of the bars.

The Beemer is built that way, but the Wing is not at all - a very conventional seating position.

Efficient design is usually beautiful to the informed mind -- what sort of crap would I need in my head to salivate at these ugly buggers?

That's a bit of nasty judgementalism toward the people who DO find one or both attractive. Put me in that group. Like Ken, I find the Beemer to have way too much shiny crap (although I know others like that kind of bling), but I find the Wing to be an elegant piece of mechanical design, especially considering what they were starting with. When you look at objects like these, it's not just what they are that matters, but where they began. I too think overall I would prefer a different treatment for the sidecovers, but that's a pretty minor point, and I might change my mind if I saw the bike in person.

Are the designers of modern bikes correct in thinking most of us are impressed by the sort of crotch-rockets that schoolboys dream of ?

I don't understand this comment at all, as it has nothing to do with these two bikes. These are not even remotely like modern crotch rockets, nor are they anything that schoolboys dream of. Schoolboys dream of Ducati 1098's, Hayabusas, GSXR's, etc. - certainly not of 70's touring bikes turned into cafe sport bikes. These two bikes are the dreams of people who were schoolboys when these bikes were built.

[Sunbeem]

Anyone would think I was opinionated ... !

I agree with Ken re: the eye of the beholder, so my view is more a description of my various biases and predilections, than an informed judgment ... and is in no way diminished by opposing views with which I may also agree.
It is also visceral, at the expense of verisimilitude, and philosophically speaking, closer to Nasrudin than Persig.

Others will see what I don't see Major, that will be beauty to them,and they are not foolish to find it so, but for me to see it thus, I would need to kick, like Paul, against the pricks.

What really rattles my repressed English spleen, is the fact that both bikes are trying to impress me.

I love a nice cafe job, they can work with any nationality, but for me, the old black Velocettes, Beezers, Vinnies etc, can be achingly beautiful, in spite of yardbrush paint job, and a bit of wire holding the mudguard on ... insouciance incarnate.

Below and beyond the surface, the witness marks of many miles done, the journeys threaded and stitched over the landscape, while the wind tore wild at the cables, and the wear marks and abrasions gathered over time.
The faint haze of history that I sense around the RS.
That's what gets me onto a motorcycle, and these two haven't quite got it down.

Sunbeem.

[Airbear]

Below and beyond the surface, the witness marks of many miles done, the journeys threaded and stitched over the landscape, while the wind tore wild at the cables, and the wear marks and abrasions gathered over time.
The faint haze of history that I sense around the RS.
That's what gets me onto a motorcycle, and these two haven't quite got it down.

Beautiful words, Sun. You've nailed it.

I can see the love that has gone into those shiny things, but they remind me of those women one sees; plucked, primped, expensively dressed, covered in paint and perfume and wearing shoes that can only cripple. Gimme a sheila and a bike with a few kms on the clock.

Now, here is real beauty, to my mind. Continuously registered since new with wear marks from luggage straps, chips in the paint and a lot of miles as well as kilometres. I wanted to give it a hug but one has to be careful about public displays of lust for another's sweetie.

[Sunbeem]

Damn right 'bear, here's to good tunes on old fiddles.
Keep making the music.

Sunbeem.

[Zombie Master]

Now, here is real beauty, to my mind. Continuously registered since new with wear marks from luggage straps, chips in the paint and a lot of miles as well as kilometres. I wanted to give it a hug but one has to be careful about public displays of lust for another's sweetie.

[/quote]

The old Vinney is a beautiful piece of art. In its day it was the shit. But now It's all just a fantasy, something you think you want. But like a gorgeous woman with far too little testosterone, and a abhorrent aroma. Forty eight horse power, and laughable brakes do not a great riding event make.

[Ken in Oklahoma]

The old Vinney is a beautiful piece of art. In its day it was the shit. But now It's all just a fantasy, something you think you want. But like a gorgeous woman with far too little testosterone, and a abhorrent aroma. Forty eight horse power, and laughable brakes do not a great riding event make.

True if your definition of a great riding event means something like power, handling, comfort, and reliability.

If, on the other hand a great riding event means "shutting down" your riding buddies who have bragged incessantly ad naseum about their superior Triumphs, BSAs, or even Sportsters, then riding a Vincent would be a great to sublime riding experience.

Oh God, how I wanted a Black Shadow . . . . .

Of course you're talking about riding a Vincent today. But if I had a Vincent today riding it would still be great just knowing that I could shut 'em down if Larry, Danny, or Ron should somehow show up on their old bikes.

Living in the past? Who cares as long as I finally get to show 'em up!



Ken

[Ken in Oklahoma]

The old Vinney is a beautiful piece of art. In its day it was the shit. But now It's all just a fantasy, something you think you want. But like a gorgeous woman with far too little testosterone, and a abhorrent aroma. Forty eight horse power, and laughable brakes do not a great riding event make.

True if your definition of a great riding event means something like power, handling, comfort, and reliability.

If, on the other hand a great riding event means "shutting down" your riding buddies who have bragged incessantly ad naseum about their superior Triumphs, BSAs, or even Sportsters, then riding a Vincent would be a great to sublime riding experience.

Oh God, how I wanted a Black Shadow . . . . .

Of course you're talking about riding a Vincent today. But if I had a Vincent today riding it would still be great just knowing that I could shut 'em down if Larry, Danny, or Ron should somehow show up on their old bikes.

Living in the past? Who cares as long as I finally get to show 'em up!

And speaking of gorgeous women, If, in addition, Diana, the varsity cheerleader I lusted for should be there to watch, well, it would be a case of take me now Lord!



Ken

[Max Headroom]

The old Vinney is a beautiful piece of art. In its day it was the shit. But now It's all just a fantasy, something you think you want. But like a gorgeous woman with far too little testosterone, and a abhorrent aroma. Forty eight horse power, and laughable brakes do not a great riding event make.

I believe that the later Black Shadow/Rapide was quoted at 55hp, and that's with only 7.3:1 compression ratio. With better fuel and a compression ratio closer to 9.5:1, a Black Shadow would give several modern bikes a fright. They were also quoted as having a top speed of 125mph, which wasn't shabby by any measure. I'd respectfully suggest that those 55 horses were very fit and healthy . . .

[Zombie Master]

The old Vinney is a beautiful piece of art. In its day it was the shit. But now It's all just a fantasy, something you think you want. But like a gorgeous woman with far too little testosterone, and a abhorrent aroma. Forty eight horse power, and laughable brakes do not a great riding event make.

I believe that the later Black Shadow/Rapide was quoted at 55hp, and that's with only 7.3:1 compression ratio. With better fuel and a compression ratio closer to 9.5:1, a Black Shadow would give several modern bikes a fright. They were also quoted as having a top speed of 125mph, which wasn't shabby by any measure. I'd respectfully suggest that those 55 horses were very fit and healthy . . .

The picture is not a Black shadow. I've got a buddy with 6 concourse Vincents. He just bought a Black Shadow for $110,000. He put another $30,000 into it. My 250 Yamaha TDR250 was dyno tested at 45.5 HP and weighed 300 pds. I realize for many performance is not a factor. For me baking performance is not something I want to compromise on!

[Ken in Oklahoma]

Vincents were top dogs on the dragstrip long after the factory closed. Or at least one was. This topic caused me to think about Clem Johnson's Barn Job. I remembe fantasizing about that bike.

Here's one link of quite a vew from Google:

http://www.harley-davidson-hangout.com/ ... -bike.html



Ken