Swapping handlebars

[Major Softie]

It is good to have a pair of fresh metal seal washers on hand before disturbing a banjo fitting. I always try to reuse them and sometimes I get away with it, sometimes not. You can also use sealant with old washers but it's ticklish using exactly the right amount and you have to use the right stuff as well.

NO NO NO NO NO.

No "sealant" of any kind on crush washers.

[ME 109]

Rob, popcorn smilie please.

[PITAPan]

It is good to have a pair of fresh metal seal washers on hand before disturbing a banjo fitting. I always try to reuse them and sometimes I get away with it, sometimes not. You can also use sealant with old washers but it's ticklish using exactly the right amount and you have to use the right stuff as well.

NO NO NO NO NO.

No "sealant" of any kind on crush washers.

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES,---For me. I know what to use and how to use it. Like I said, ticklish.

NO NO NO NO NO.---for you. If you don't know what and how you will indeed come to grief.

I never cease to be surprised at what people pull off in third world type areas where a couple of fresh crush washers just isn't an option. If they can do it, what's my problem? I have an incredible array of materials and tools to choose from---quite a few of them on hand. New crush washers---sure, but I might be laid up a week waiting for them to arrive.

How about that 8 mm crush washer on the late model (non-mono) rear drive level plug. Got a handy source? Need to take the oil lines off the oil canister cover plate. Oops, don't have a set of crush washers on hand. Wasn't scheduled work and I haven't dropped the significant amount of cash to build up a supply. And so on. Worth learning how to work with sealants with out them getting out of control. (and if they do or you glue something together cleaning up can be pretty difficult)

[Duane Ausherman]

We had to use new crush washers for liability reasons. On our own personal bikes we never replaced them and never had trouble. We never used any sealant.

[SteveD]

How many crush washers are required, what size should be ordered and what locations are they fitted to?

[Major Softie]

We aren't talking about zero pressure drain plugs, we are talking about banjo fittings on hydraulic brake lines. And, the list of really dangerous things that are done in third world countries is endless and immaterial. Yes, they "get away with" all sorts of things. They also die a lot.

Timkil, pay absolutely no attention to his comment about sealant, follow the rest of the advice, and you will be fine. Use new crush washers whenever possible. As Duane says the "official line" is to never reuse. One reuse almost always seals up fine, but there's definitely a limit where they quit working.

[PITAPan]

How many crush washers are required, what size should be ordered and what locations are they fitted to?

Every banjo fitting gets two. I have a couple, can measure them up tomorrow.

[PITAPan]

We aren't talking about zero pressure drain plugs, we are talking about banjo fittings on hydraulic brake lines. And, the list of really dangerous things that are done in third world countries is endless and immaterial. Yes, they "get away with" all sorts of things. They also die a lot.

Timkil, pay absolutely no attention to his comment about sealant, follow the rest of the advice, and you will be fine. Use new crush washers whenever possible. As Duane says the "official line" is to never reuse. One reuse almost always seals up fine, but there's definitely a limit where they quit working.

He can't take my advice because I didn't say what to use or how to use it--and warned that not knowing this will cause problems. If he is interested, I can go into it.

The banjo is a basic flange fitting. No magic. The deformation of the crush washer takes up misalignment between the flanges. Sealant does the same thing. Sealant can also prevent the flanges from corroding together although I have not heard of this being an issue on our banjo fittings.

There are many things that can work very well when done correctly. But very few have heard of them, or how to do it correctly. The unknown is feared (and thus loathed) and the familiar favored..but "familiar" has a couple meanings. You don't have to read much history to observe one centuries taboos and witch hunts become anothers pretty little thing.

"And, the list of really dangerous things that are done in third world countries is endless and immaterial. Yes, they "get away with" all sorts of things. They also die a lot."

Where did "dangerous" come from? Nice spin. It cuts both ways tho'. We die a lot too. in fact, every last one of us dies. Fresh crush washers every time and the death rate is still 100%.

[Ken in Oklahoma]

To add fuel to the fire, if one chose to re-use a copper sealing washer, it would be a good idea to anneal the copper. Heat it red hot with a propane or other heat source and let it cool; or dunk it in water if you like to hurry the process. Copper isn't high carbon steel.

I would anneal the old washer(s) if I had no spares and I really needed to go riding. Of course the likelihood of me not having those spares is slim. And one would want to keep an eye on the connection, at least initially.

Back in the day reusing a copper head gasket by heating it red hot was a common practice, talked about in some of the old Brit bike "coloring books".

The idea is that compressing a copper gasket work hardens it and annealing relieves the stresses, allowing it to comply with irregularities better.

Aside:
I believe that it is common practice for reloaders to anneal the case mouths (to reduce splitting and to make resizing easier and the bullet crimp more secure).

Ken

[Major Softie]

The banjo is a basic flange fitting. No magic. The deformation of the crush washer takes up misalignment between the flanges. Sealant does the same thing. Sealant can also prevent the flanges from corroding together although I have not heard of this being an issue on our banjo fittings.

No. The crush washer is not for "misalignment." Neither is sealant. Their purpose is to deal with surface imperfections.

There are many things that can work very well when done correctly. But very few have heard of them, or how to do it correctly. The unknown is feared (and thus loathed) and the familiar favored..but "familiar" has a couple meanings. You don't have to read much history to observe one centuries taboos and witch hunts become anothers pretty little thing.

This is a complete load of bullshit. "Done correctly" is what you are arguing against, and there is nothing here that involves the unknown. Now you are trying to completely reverse reality. "Correctly" is new crush washers. Sealant is a known risk increase. You are arguing for a practice argued against by the motorcycle, hydraulic, and fastener industries. Their position is not based on it being "unknown," but on it being known to increase failures.

Where did "dangerous" come from? Nice spin. It cuts both ways tho'. We die a lot too. in fact, every last one of us dies. Fresh crush washers every time and the death rate is still 100%.

My deepest apologies if you were unable to comprehend my meaning, which you weren't, so this is also complete bullshit.


Do what you wish to your own bike, but don't spread bullshit to other people about their brakes. It can get them killed. If you find that not to be an issue because they will all die at some point anyway, don't do it anyway.


Ken, yes, reloaders anneal casings, especially the necks of high power rifle casings because they stretch and move a lot more than pistol casings. Just like copper head gaskets (which also seal surface imperfections, not misalignment) , annealing could extend the uses of copper crush washers, but they also get distorted wider and thinner with each use, so even with annealing they would have a limited number of uses - probably far less than rifle casings.