R100R 1993

[daz]

Souljer
Like we said earlier the AGM battery likes a higher charge. It does not hurt the battery to give it a quick full charge on a regular charger. That being said it is possible to purchase a new battery that is bad from the get go. How can you tell? Remove the battery and get it load tested. Just like an old battery. No cost, just a little time.

If your battery is good I wonder if you have a parasitic drain even with your key off? Disconnect the battery and see if it holds a charge. You probably don't have your old battery to do this to. You just replaced the battery to solve your earlier problem.

[barryh]

Hi,

Hmm,
Had the battery on the charger all night and now 20 hours later it's still on "Charging"?
That does not seem like a good sign. Was going to ride the bike to a wedding today but now think I should just take my truck instead. Rode the bike yesterday and last night but the wedding is way over on the other side of the city.

I think I'll just follow my instincts, but what do you guys think about the battery not charging or taking so long?

What I would do is ignore the lights on the charger and find out what's really happening by measuring the charge voltage to make sure I wasn't exceeding the battery manufacturers guidance. Then let the battery rest overnight and measure the no load battery voltage. If it's within spec then the battery is probably fully charged.

To be honest a charger that only had lights would not be for me. I want to see amps and volts and more important the way they change during the charging cycle. It's the way of the world though like modern cars that have an idiot light instead of a temperature gauge so it tells you the engine already overheated.

[Souljer]

Hi,

When I got back home (early this morning) the 'charge' light was off and the 'storage' light was on.
Rechecking it this afternoon; same. It's on 'storage' mode now.

So maybe it is charging but at a slow pace as suggested?
The Yuasa is really not a charger so much as a maintainer of charge. Perhaps something I should plug in every night.

I was just worried that the battery was not accepting the charge or that the bike was not charging the battery, so the battery was just getting drained.

I guess I'll have to buy some more tools to really understand what's happening. And/Or a better charger that tells me exactly what's going on. This is just what I was sold when I first got the bike and did not know what my options were.

[daz]

What I would do is ignore the lights on the charger and find out what's really happening by measuring the charge voltage to make sure I wasn't exceeding the battery manufacturers guidance. Then let the battery rest overnight and measure the no load battery voltage. If it's within spec then the battery is probably fully charged.

To be honest a charger that only had lights would not be for me. I want to see amps and volts and more important the way they change during the charging cycle. It's the way of the world though like modern cars that have an idiot light instead of a temperature gauge so it tells you the engine already overheated.

Geeze Barryh I'm not sure I agree with all that. I do think the owner lucked out and actually had a bad battery. He replaced the battery and solved his problem most likely. However your trusty voltmeter is not the solution to determine the condition of the battery. Your volt meter tells the voltage of your battery. But it does not tell anything about the
condition of your battery. Just because it reads 12 plus volts does not mean your battery
is in good shape. It does not mean your battery can start your bike.
Think of that full charge as a QUANTITY rather than a VALUE. One battery holds a
certain charge. (Cold Cranking Amps). It’s brother who is older no longer can hold that
much charge. The older battery simply has less capacity. However, fully charged they
both read over12 volts. The 12 volts is the nominal difference in electrical potential. 12
volts does not tell capacity. 12 volts is a nominal value. The capacity or CCA (if you
must) is the quantity of charge.
It takes longer to fully charge the larger CCA battery. Take two batteries, same make,
model, and statistics. One is new. One is old and nearly worn out. The old battery takes
less time to charge because it holds less charge. 12 volts is nominal not
QUANTITATIVE. Each battery reads 12 plus volts but the newer battery can crank and
keep the lights bright longer.

I'm sorry I disagree with you but it's just the way I see things.

[Major Softie]

Daz, resting voltage IS an indirect measure of the condition of the battery. You are absolutely right that it doesn't come close to showing you the whole picture, but it is a valuable indicator - especially when tracked over time so that you can see changes. Think of it like valve clearances: measuring the valve clearance doesn't tell you much at all about the engine condition, but measuring the valve clearance at very regular intervals does allow you to notice when there is a change in the normal pattern.

[Duane Ausherman]

Daz is right. It means nothing to find that a battery shows full voltage. That can be a false positive. If it reads a low value, that means something.

A new battery can be considered as 100% and an old used one that is at 1% of original can measure the same value. It tells you nothing that you care about.

You must load it for a valid test. It is important to have the proper load resistance. Too high, or low and you will get a test, but it may not give you reliable results.

Generally speaking, testing electrical things isn't so easy. Or, it may appear easy, but it can easily be a lie and you may not know it.

We have some new technology for our cell sites that will sort of give a load test without actually applying a load. It can be done remotely so that nobody actually has to visit the site. An AC voltage is applied for the test and I don't remember much more. I have noticed that all of these systems that were installed for a "road test" were removed because they weren't very reliable. So much for this new technology.

[barryh]

I agree voltage is not a indicator of battery health in terms of capacity and internal resistance and therefore it tells you nothing about it's ability to start the bike.

I thought the question was "is the battery fully charged" and I was assuming the battery was known good. In which case no load rested voltage is a good indicator of a batteries state of charge especially once you get to know what to expect. In fact with AGM's and Gel cells it's the only way to determine a batteries state of charge. How else can you do it ? All the fancy automatic battery chargers effectively determine when to stop charging on a voltage measurement albeit a significantly higher voltage than the rested voltage.

On my cars wet cell I charge it to 14.4 volts and expect 12.6 volts rested. On My bikes Gel cell the figures are 14.9 and 13.05 as advised by the manufacturer. I see these voltages week in week out and they tell me everything I need because I know the batteries are good.

I really do understand and get to know my batteries and in my hands they last up to 12 years. It's not rocket science you just keep them fully charged but not overcharged. You can't guarantee to do that with a silly charger that only has idiot lights at least not unless it was specifically designed for the battery being charged.

[daz]

On my cars wet cell I charge it to 14.4 volts and expect 12.6 volts rested. On My bikes Gel cell the figures are 14.9 and 13.05 as advised by the manufacturer. I see these voltages week in week out and they tell me everything I need because I know the batteries are good.

I really do understand and get to know my batteries and in my hands they last up to 12 years. It's not rocket science you just keep them fully charged but not overcharged. You can't guarantee to do that with a silly charger that only has idiot lights at least not unless it was specifically designed for the battery being charged.

The peak charging voltage for Gel batteries is 14.1 or 14.4 volts, which is lower than a wet or AGM type battery needs for a full charge. Exceeding this voltage in a Gel battery can cause bubbles in the electrolyte gel, and permanent damage.

I think a lot of people with an AGM battery refer to it as a gel battery. But no matter, Soldjer got his bike running and can go to the wedding!

[barryh]

The peak charging voltage for Gel batteries is 14.1 or 14.4 volts, which is lower than a wet or AGM type battery needs for a full charge. Exceeding this voltage in a Gel battery can cause bubbles in the electrolyte gel, and permanent damage.

I think a lot of people with an AGM battery refer to it as a gel battery. But no matter, Soldjer got his bike running and can go to the wedding!

Yes I know that is the generic perceived wisdom for a Gel battery and it puzzled me too when I first bought the battery. I've had to give up thinking generic recommendations apply in every case. My bottom line is simple. I call my battery what the manufacturer calls it and charge it at the voltage the manufacturer recommends. It's written plain as day on the side of the battery. I guess they could be wrong but they developed it, tested it and guarantee it, so I do what they say. My point was you can get to know your battery and soon spot when something changes. Mine sits at 13.05 volts week after week after being rested 24hours. Does that sound like a generic battery that anyone knows ? I never had a battery before with such a high rested voltage but it sits where the manufacturer says it should for a full charge so I'm not complaining.

Little differences in chemistry or construction seems to be the way batteries are going in some cases. Not that I'd invest in one but as an example the infamous Odessey is just an AGM battery or is it ?

[Major Softie]

Little differences in chemistry or construction seems to be the way batteries are going in some cases. Not that I'd invest in one but as an example the infamous Odessey is just an AGM battery or is it ?

"Infamous?" I don't know about that, but Odyssey batteries (note spelling) are AGM's. "Just" AGM's? I'm not so sure about that. Odysseys can accept far higher amps in charging, and can deliver far more amps (for their AH capacity) than any other AGM battery I've found. I have no idea what makes them different, but other manufacturers' AGMs have charge amp and amperage delivery ratings much closer to conventional wet-cell batteries. My guess is that it has more to do with internal mechanical construction than differences in chemistry.