Bent frame

[Duane Ausherman]

The post by Rob prompted this thread.

If you are looking at a used bike to buy, one of the most important and in my opinoin, most important is the alignment of things. The frame is #1 and forks #2.

You might think "engine' because it is so costly, but the engine is easy to change/fix compared to the frame. Fixing a frame is such a lengthy procedure that it is my #1.

I would not touch a wrecked bike without first checking the frame. Rob was remiss in starting repairs without knowing that his work would turn out OK, as far as the frame goes. Sorry Rob, but I bet that you were just anxious to get back on the bike ASAP. When emotions enter an issue, mistakes can be made. We are human.

To use the BMW jig requires that a lot of the frame be stripped off. That is a lot of work. We found a faster way and that is what is described on my site. However it doesn't cover all cases, just most of them.

We could discover 90% (maybe more) of the bent frames without putting a single tool on the bike and in less than 15 minutes.

We could have a false positive. A frame might actually be bent and our "quicky" method might miss it. Howver, if we found it bent, it was bent....... always. If we didn't find it bent, but had reason to be checking, then our conclusion was that it needed further investigation.

If you could go back to a showroom with 20 identical airheads and check for frame similarities, you would be amazed. Certain measurements vary by a lot, but they aren't important. The area around the engine is where they vary a lot.

[gspd]

We could discover 90% (maybe more) of the bent frames without putting a single tool on the bike and in less than 15 minutes.

You're losing it, ya ol' coot!



It's more like.... 95% and 5 minutes.

[melville]

We could discover 90% (maybe more) of the bent frames without putting a single tool on the bike and in less than 15 minutes.

You're losing it, ya ol' coot!



It's more like.... 95% and 5 minutes.

He was checking nearly new, expensive (at the time) bikes. 15 minutes was the required "retail theater" amount so the customers got perceived value.

I used his string method and took an afternoon. "Sorry honey, gotta check the Airhead frame!"

[gspd]

You can't properly test ride a frame on a dolly, you have to put the wheels on it.

[Duane Ausherman]

We seldom used the string method at my dealership because we had a better and faster way. Our parking lot was elevated about 4-5 ft from the next undeveloped lot. We would park the bike on the cneter stand and point it at the empty lot. One tech would walk down so that he/she was standing normally and looking at the wheels at eye level. The other person/owner would gradually move the forks back and forth a very tiny bit as directed by the "lower" pair of eyes.

Of course this was when we were all young and could see well. Now, all is off the table.

One can easily and quickly see any error of even 1/8". The error that we could "see" would translate to our riding method of true tracking of about one inch of lean. Since they could come from the factory, new, with 1-2" of lean, our "eyeball" method was equal or superior to riding it and the factory tolerance.

The eyeball method only shows straight tracking and nothing more. We had a couple of nearby curves to show up the rest of the geometry. We actually had a few more eyeball checks to show bent frames. Sometimes a frame would not pass our eyeball test, but still handle OK. A test ride is better for showing minor fork stiction.

All of my mechanics could go over a BMW in 15 minutes and tell you 90% of its condition just by feeling various things, listening to it and eyeballing things. A few of you have seen me perform this same testing at Ken's, or other places. However, it is 35 years since I was doing this daily and I now miss things and take longer.

I am also much slower at tuning carbs by ear. I can still hear most of the important items though.

[gspd]

All of my mechanics could go over a BMW in 15 minutes and tell you 90% of its condition just by feeling various things, listening to it and eyeballing things.

I have a knack for instantly estimating repair costs on pretty well any bike or car.
Collision, full restoration, cosmetic stuff or mechanical repairs, it makes no difference.
When I was doing an insurance company gig, I used to freak out a lot of the other appraisers by throwing out a number after simply looking at a few pics of a smashed or vandalized car, only to have them confirm my guesstimate (within 15%) after a few hours of looking up part prices and labour times.

Now, I always give ballpark verbal estimates on jobs, leaving myself a cushion for the unexpected.
In Quebec, repair shops are required to give a detailed written estimate to the customer and stick to it, fuck that.
The shop can charge for the estimate only if some disassembly time is required to evaluate the damage and the customer gives the OK to tear it apart..
Want a written estimate? Get somebody else to waste their time writing it and bring it to me.
If it makes sense I'll do it for that price.
I don't waste my time doing written estimates for people who are shopping around.
I might lose the odd job or two that way, but I don't care.

Everybody is thrilled when they pick up their vehicle and the total is LESS than originally quoted.
Most gladly pay the original price anyway (they call it a tip) and tell me that this has never happened to them before.

I hate calling people back to tell them I found this and that wrong and have to charge more than my original quote.

[Airbear]

I don't want to interrupt.
I feel like a little kid quietly sitting under the table while the adults talk about something really interesting and 'adult'.

GS, I strongly approve of your estimating practices. It's exactly what I do for drafting jobs, and I keep getting referred to new clients. Saves having to advertise.

Please continue.

[Duane Ausherman]

I always gave a quote that was "over" what I really thought. I also padded the time estimate. When the 90% of the jobs came in below the estimate and quicker, they thought I was a hero.

Actually, i was just a liar. People love liars................ when it turns out better than the lie.

This is so simple that I don't understand why every business doesn't do it.

[Jeff in W.C.]

That reminds me of a phrase I heard when I did sales for a short bit in the early 90's.

Under promise and over deliver.